Nico Pouilloux is a principal ISV technical evangelist here at Salesforce. He has worked for a variety of companies throughout his career but eventually came to realize that he wanted to work for a B2B software company. This brought him to Salesforce.

In this episode, Nico and I discuss his work as an ISV technical evangelist. We also get into his advice for ISVs and the Business Builders program he has helped develop. Join us!

Show Highlights:

  • What Nico’s current role looks like.
  • How he keeps up with all the latest developments.
  • How he helps founders of new businesses get on the market.
  • The evaluation process he goes through when founders bring in their ideas.
  • A simple explanation of the Business Builders program.
  • The communal features of Business Builders.

Links:

Episode Transcript

Nico Pouilloux:
Many kids of my age, was born in 1981. So I discovered computer and it was really something that has changed my perception of life, basically.

Josh Birk:
That is Nico Pouilloux, a principle ISV technical evangelist here at Salesforce. I’m Josh Birk, your host of the Salesforce developer podcast. And here on the podcast, we’re hearing stories and insights from developers for developers. Today, we sit down and talk with Nico about his work as an ISV technical evangelist, advice they’ve got for ISVs and the work that we do here at Salesforce to partner with them, including our business builders program. But we’ll start as we often do with his early years here with his earliest memory, with a computer.

Nico Pouilloux:
I would say I started with a computer that was a cousin gave to me. It was an Amstrad CPC 6128. I remember that it was like the screen was blue and yellow. It was very funny because it was very early start of programming for me because you can go through magazines and you had to copy paste. I mean, read it at the code lines and paste it in the computer. It’s very fun.

Josh Birk:
That’s come up now on the pod, I think three times, including myself. And I love that there’s just a whole generation of programmers who have this like, shared experience of like, no, we went to the back of the magazine, but you typed it in by hand. And then I don’t know about you, but I shook my fist a lot because I didn’t really even know what a syntax error was. And it just kept complaining at me because obviously, I keystroke something incorrect, so yeah.

Nico Pouilloux:
Only one character could mess everything.

Josh Birk:
Exactly. It was so frustrating. I just want to wander around this 3D maze thing. I don’t care about your syntax, whatever the heck that is. And then how did you get involved with Salesforce?

Nico Pouilloux:
Computer was important. I even program some video games on the Texas instruments calculators at that time.

Josh Birk:
Oh wow.

Nico Pouilloux:
Yeah. So it was in assembly language, it was pretty fun, but yeah, basically after school and computer science, I joined IBM and doing some architectures and everything around innovation really passionate me. Like it was a mobility technology and things like that. And also cloud technologies and the mix of everything with its interest of partnerships, which I did in, or another company called Atos in France, working with SAP, Adobe, a lot of different partners. It was really something, it was in evidence for me to join a software company like Salesforce that is basically providing BUB, business cloud and working with partners. So for me, it was really important to do that.

Josh Birk:
So that’s interesting. So you had these kind of moments where you were working on mobility, you were working on these various things. Is Salesforce kind of the first time you’ve been able to put all of that together?

Nico Pouilloux:
No, I mean, mobility was something I did back at Atos. I was working with a connected vehicle like [inaudible 00:03:26], it’s still available, if you buy your [inaudible 00:03:29], you will have a link, which is basically Android inside. And it was a partnership with [inaudible 00:03:36] at that time. And then what was really lacking for me, it was having the concept of mobility, the concept of cloud working with B2B enterprise and partnerships and that’s why when I saw this opportunity of ISV technical evangelists, which I’m doing today, for me it was something that I should do.

Josh Birk:
Nice. How would you describe your current job?

Nico Pouilloux:
So, yeah, principle ISV technologies, basically working with partners, I’ve been doing that for next to six years now, already, this time. And so what I did and the previous year was really working with European partners, mostly helping them and mostly strategic partners like Capitol, for example, that you may know, and working with them, basically helping them leveraging the best technology of platform, making sure that following our best practices, making sure that they know what is coming, different pilots and all different cloud that we have to be honest inside Salesforce, we’ve acquired some companies, some big ones. And obviously as a technical evangelist, I need to know what’s inside there different new technologies to make sure that all partners are going to leverage that. And since it’s been like next to two years now, I’m really focusing my role into what we call the business builders, which is, yeah. Sorry. Didn’t want to say something.

Josh Birk:
No, no, it’s okay. It’s cord of a spoiler, but that’s okay.

Nico Pouilloux:
Oh yeah.

Josh Birk:
Tell me a little bit more about the idea. So I used to joke, I used to do the workshop content and all of that kind of stuff and not just the acquisitions, but we also do three releases a year.

Nico Pouilloux:
Yeah.

Josh Birk:
We’re constantly adding to the platform. We very rarely take anything away from the platform. How do you keep ahead of everything? How are you making sure you have the latest in your brain so that you know you’re giving the best advice to our partners?

Nico Pouilloux:
I mean, that is the greatest challenge that we have. And I know I’m sharing that with a lot of communities, architects and CSG. I know that to answer your question, we can’t, it’s impossible. I mean, clearly we can’t keep up. It’s impossible. Someone who is telling you that is a liar, right?

Nico Pouilloux:
It’s clearly, but we are organized in a way where we have dedicated specialists and we try to rely on them and leverage their knowledge for specific use cases that we encounter with partners. That’s how we try to keep up and be at the state of the art of what Salesforce is offering.

Josh Birk:
Gotcha. Nice. Do you have a particular specialty that you say would say is under your wing?

Nico Pouilloux:
My role is really to work with founders.

Josh Birk:
Okay.

Nico Pouilloux:
That wants to go quickly on the market that really want to focus on their innovation and the IP that they want to bring on the platform. So my specialty is really to understand their industry, understand their pain points and helping them bring the most of a platform and helping them do this design sprint and bringing the idea into reality. This is what I try to do.

Josh Birk:
Now, when you say founders, because when I was looking at the builder’s website, it’s very clear and present now, is that a specific kind of partner? Is that focusing on the people who have maybe an innovative idea, but they haven’t built it yet? What are we talking about there?

Nico Pouilloux:
Yeah, exactly. Usually it’s person that have a great idea have sometimes some funds already, but not always, but know that it’ll have a great TAM on the market. It’ll have a great impact. They have every business case ready and sometimes a lot of customers in mind and this kind of person are really the one that can, it could be developers.

Nico Pouilloux:
You know, you don’t have to be someone who is very strong in business, but at least need some knowledge, right? It could, it could be some people that are really motivated. And then our role is to accelerate, make them grow, understand that Salesforce is not only a CRM. You might allow that many times. Right? But it’s also, and most of it’s a Salesforce of platform and this platform will help them monetize what they want to bring on the market.

Josh Birk:
So there’s a few interesting aspects there. I think one was actually a question I was thinking of down the road, but because I’m used to the technical evangelism from the side of best practices and code examples and new features and things like that. Does Salesforce with our ISV programs, do we play a role in the business side of it as well? Like if I am, maybe it’s, I’m a small developer shop, but I have this great idea, but I have no real business sense. Do we help connect those dots?

Nico Pouilloux:
Yes. Yes. In fact, I’m working with a partner account manager, always. We are this ying and young, I would say working hand in hand with this startup that we want to become a scale up. Right? And basically sometimes my main role obviously is to talk product, to talk roadmap, to talk architecture use cases. And the main role of the PAM is really to understand the business, the vision, the different potential customers helps them grow through the different contract as well. And everything that is required for partners to be successful with Salesforce. And we are often mixing two things we really want to bring as much as we can to help this founder go quickly on the market.

Josh Birk:
And just to kind of call it out. We’re also talking about not only are they using Salesforce to build out their great idea, their application, their software, they’re also using Salesforce to sell the software and become commercially successful themselves. Like they’re also using our technology in order to organize and ship effectively.

Nico Pouilloux:
Yeah. I think that’s the beauty of our program don’t want to brag. But if I compare that to competition today, to be honest, I didn’t see that because we are providing a production organization, which is called a partner business work.

Josh Birk:
Okay.

Nico Pouilloux:
And this org is, it contains all the different tools that Salesforce itself is using with its customers, meaning that you will have a dedicated app to manage your licenses with your subscriber. You will have a dedicated app to create developer environment. The full Salesforce DX Suite is available to you. You will grab analytics from the usage of your different apps. So there’s a lot of tools that we are giving for free all of our partners to help them be a software vendor and not only an integrator for our customers.

Nico Pouilloux:
And as you said, obviously from the business side, the interest of the program is not only the technology, but also the fact that you will be able to target all of our installed customers that are using Salesforce. And it’ll be only going to the app exchange or marketplace install the app and that’s it. They will be ready to go.

Josh Birk:
Nice. Like I love the parallel on that, between that, and like the nonprofit starter program, like the whole, we’re not just going to give you our blank slate, our typical CRM, we’re going to for free extend it for you so that you’re already have this point of success. When you start out on day one, I guess I didn’t realize we had that much of a sophisticated layer when it came to the ISV side too. That’s really pretty cool.

Nico Pouilloux:
Yes. And not only, I mean, there’s two ways of being a partners from a technical standpoint, you can obviously target Salesforce customers, existing Salesforce customers build the [inaudible 00:12:34] to improve the experience, but you can also be a standalone partner.

Josh Birk:
Right.

Nico Pouilloux:
And basically what we call OEM and basically use a Salesforce platform as a developer environment and build on top of that and sell the whole bundle to a fresh customer, which doesn’t know Salesforce. It doesn’t have to know that Salesforce is running behind the scene, which is pretty interesting.

Josh Birk:
One of my favorite success stories that I used to hear from the old [inaudible 00:13:04] days was she used to loved to talk about somebody who had worked in and worked with large animal vets. And so he had this like working understanding of the data model that particular niche of doctors, needed to be able to work with. And so he built out, I believe what you’re describing in OEM, just for that audience. And one of the things we always talked about was like, he would get calls and support calls under the assumption that he’s like some 2200 person company, but it was really just him. Do we still see that a lot? Do we see like the kind of the solo of really small shops that are kind of performing at a scale that seems like it’s a large shop?

Nico Pouilloux:
Yes, definitely. I mean, business border, a program, usually to be honest, I met a lot of them in the first, like two quarter in the first half of the year. I’ve met a lot of them. I can tell you that a large amount of them just have a vision, no budget. A lot of things are not here, but say they are very, very motivated. And once you see them reaching the first cell or reaching the first customers and being successful, having in mind that at the beginning, it was only one person or maybe two. It’s really impressive. And yes, you, I mean, I’m pretty sure that a lot of customers think that on the marketplace, as in with Salesforce will think that it’s a very big company. How can you do that? It’s yeah. It’s nice. Yeah. Do that.

Josh Birk:
I know. And I’m guilty of asking these kinds of questions all the time, where it’s like picking the favorite of your children, but do you have a particular success story that you’re really like proud of or happy with?

Nico Pouilloux:
I can talk about the success story of a business builder that became very great. And I already talked about it is because I know a lot of people doesn’t know that, but say right at the beginning.

Josh Birk:
Oh, that’s awesome.

Nico Pouilloux:
Yeah. It we’re very small. And then it became very, very big, but I don’t want to give names some publicity about partners, but I,

Josh Birk:
Right, right. And then one partner’s like, why am I not your favorite? Why am I not your favorite?

Nico Pouilloux:
And I work as so many of them. And, and by the way, partners, if you are listening to me, I love you all.

Josh Birk:
Oh, you’re all my favorites.

Nico Pouilloux:
Yeah. All my favorites.

Josh Birk:
Perfect answer. Perfect answer. When we talk about, you keep saying that like when somebody comes and they have a great idea, what’s the threshold there, is it simply an idea that somebody themselves is in love with and passionate about? Or do we have sort of an evaluation process where it’s kind of like, I know you think that’s a great idea, but this is why it’s not.

Nico Pouilloux:
Yes, we have an evaluation, but it’s a bit like security review, you don’t really know what is evaluated children received the first report, but yes, of course a vision is great, but it’s sometimes not enough. We need to make sure, obviously that Salesforce will be leveraged. I mean, would be mainly leverage. I would say the optimal partner and a business builder specifically is someone who is going to take the most of the platform will really want to use every single innovation that we are providing. Doesn’t have to. But I mean, if it’s a target or the roadmap, it’ll be a great business builder in terms of vision, in terms of business, it’s really important to assess the addressable market, to make sure that it’ll represent enough opportunities depending on different customer we have, or we don’t have.

Nico Pouilloux:
But you need to analyzes that should be done. And one of the criteria well is to make sure that it’s fitting the wide space, right? Because obviously Salesforce expanding. There’s a lot of area where we are not going, and this is why having business builders, filling this wide space. It’s a great for them and for us.

Josh Birk:
Gotcha. So we keep referencing business builders, but let’s level set for everybody. What exactly is business builders? Like what kind of program is that?

Nico Pouilloux:
It’s really a program that is focusing on entrepreneurs. We want to help them bring really innovative ideas to life and really helping them to grow the business much faster and helping them be here with a dedicated team. Like I was explaining me and a PAM to bring this innovative idea to life.

Nico Pouilloux:
And I mean it could be founders like founder profile, but it could be architect. It could be developers. If you have really a great idea in mind, don’t be shy, go to the community, join us, join the program. And we can have a chat and we can go through what you have in mind.

Nico Pouilloux:
I mean, the purpose of this is really to find the future big ones, the future partners. And as I said, a lot of big ones that are big today and generating a lot of revenues, well business builder at the time. I mean, everyone is starting somewhere.

Josh Birk:
Right.

Nico Pouilloux:
And business builder is the best place to start.

Josh Birk:
How long have we been doing this program?

Nico Pouilloux:
I think it’s been two years, I think.

Josh Birk:
Okay.

Nico Pouilloux:
When yeah.

Josh Birk:
Okay. And when you’re talking about community, I thought it was interesting when I was looking through the website that you’re also connecting people through things like clubhouse. So what are some of the more communal features of the program?

Nico Pouilloux:
We are interacting a lot with the partner community. We try to be as close as possible to, or partners or community partners or program. There’s a lot of events that we are organizing to make sure that we help this community bond together. Like I it’s crazy that for example, I’m working with partners sometimes in different countries could be Israel, it could be UK, France and sometimes it happens that they’re working on the same topic, working on the HR feature, for example.

Nico Pouilloux:
And I know that if they can meet altogether, it could bring up great products. And by the way, talking about partners reunion and meeting and exchange, we are organizing an app exchange recruitment event on the 1st of September in the Paris office. So it’s a great way. And I think it would be a great opportunity for this kind of meeting and relationship between partners.

Josh Birk:
Nice. And do we do other things like workshops or, and I guess actually here’s a follow up question. How much when you’re trying to do these kind of communal events, how much did the pandemic wreck havoc on that?

Nico Pouilloux:
Yeah. As you can. Yeah. Everyone, I mean, is in the same situation during the pandemic, it was very complex, great events. It was complex to have people meet each other and generate contact. What we did is really, as a lot of the entire ecosystem did is like we generated some event, we propose some event online, helping our partners be aware of the latest news of our program and communicate through that channel. But it’s true that now that this pandemic is a bit unposed, I would say, I hope it would not come back.

Josh Birk:
I have no idea what to call it. I really don’t. So people are like, well, it’s getting into an endemic and I’m like so is it a pan end pandemic? Is it a mini pandemic? Is it a pandemic? We’re just all tired to talk about. I don’t know. But yeah, now that we’re in the almost PO I have no words for I’m an English major. I should have like words for this help

Nico Pouilloux:
Help you. I wish.

Josh Birk:
So let’s say a pandemic that we’re, we know what we’re talking about. So yes. Now that people are meeting in real life and we’re having real life events and all of that stuff.

Nico Pouilloux:
Yeah. Now it’s really changing. I mean, we are so happy to meet each other it’s.

Josh Birk:
I hear you. So how can people learn more about the program?

Nico Pouilloux:
So they can come on the partner community, they can join the program. There’s dedicated page that is explaining how the program is working, what the program can bring to them. And yeah, that’s.

Josh Birk:
Nice.

Nico Pouilloux:
A way.

Josh Birk:
Completely free? Anybody who’s just kind curious, can join in?

Nico Pouilloux:
Yes. It’s totally free. Obviously partners I’m working with are the partners that want to provide a paid app on the change. But apart from this, I mean, it’s what I mean is that when it’s a paid app, even if it’s a paid app, we are investing our time in the partners that we believe will be successful. Right. And obviously this investment is free.

Josh Birk:
Right. But if you’re just the guy who worked with a bunch of big animal vets and you think you’ve got a great idea, you can come in and kind of start that accelerated process free of charge.

Nico Pouilloux:
Yep.

Josh Birk:
Next and that’s our show, right? And before we go, I did ask after Nico’s favorite non-technical hobby.

Nico Pouilloux:
Whoa. That’s a great question. I have so many, I have to say that I’m part of, it’s been like five years that I’m part of a band.

Josh Birk:
Wow. Nice.

Nico Pouilloux:
At Salesforce, which is called jump force.

Josh Birk:
Oh, I love it.

Nico Pouilloux:
Yeah. And we are playing in many, many different events that are organized and we are very happy to do that. Yeah. We’ve been doing that for video as well. For some, from volunteering stuff like for restaurants that is providing food for poor people, we were playing for them. Oh, obviously French song. Like ADPF.

Josh Birk:
I was going to say, what genre of music are we talking here?

Nico Pouilloux:
We, we try to do everything. We, yeah, because for example, that’s the last summer party for internal employees.

Josh Birk:
Yeah.

Nico Pouilloux:
It was a scene was disco. So we tried to play some disco song and I’m playing guitar in this band. It’s really, really interesting.

Josh Birk:
So maybe keep an ear around for jam four, somewhere out there. I want to thank Nico for the great conversation. Information is always, I want to thank you for listening. Now, if you want to learn more about this show, head on over to developer.salesforce.com/podcast, where you can hear old episodes, see the show notes and have links to your favorite podcast service. Thanks again, everybody. I’ll talk to you next week.

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