Jean-Michel Mougeolle has a long history of building applications and selling them on the AppExchange. He has also performed in many Demo Jams and been involved with the French Developer Community for years. In this episode, he’s joining us to talk about all of this extensive experience.
We also discuss building apps and getting on the AppExchange. If you’re thinking about becoming an ISV and trying to put an app on the AppExchange, Jean-Michel gives some fantastic tips throughout our conversation on how you can make this happen. Tune in to learn all about it.
Show Highlights:
- Jean-Michel’s first introduction to Salesforce.
- What the application SharinPix does.
- Why you should think about a business problem you can solve when trying to build an app.
- How to identify a problem that needs to be solved.
- What Jean-Michel’s participation with Demo Jams has been like.
- How to actually sell your app on AppExchange.
Links:
- Jean-Michel on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jmmougeolle
- Jean-Michel on Linkedin: http://linkedin.com/in/jmmougeolle
- Jean-Michel on Instagram: http://instagram.com/jmmcloud
Episode Transcript
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
So I fit in many areas. I can sell, I can explain, I can entertain, but most of it, what I really love, is to build things.
Josh Birk:
That is Jean-Michel Mougeolle, the CEO and founder of SharinPix. I’m Josh Birk, your host for the Salesforce Development Podcast, and here in the podcast, you’ll hear stories and insights from developers for developers. Today, we sit down and talk with Jean-Michel about his long history of building applications, selling them on the AppExchange, performing in Demo Jams, and being involved in the French developer community. But we start as we often do, with his early years.
Josh Birk:
All right, today on the podcast, we welcome, I’m going to try to get this in one take, Jean-Michel Mougeolle? No. I got your last name wrong. How do you say your last name?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Mougeolle.
Josh Birk:
Mougeolle. Jean-Michel Mougeolle. Yeah?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Yeah, that’s not bad.
Josh Birk:
All right. Welcome to the show. We’re going to talk about building applications, getting on the AppExchange, all of that kind of good stuff. We’re going to start, as we often do, with your early years. Talk to me about your earliest memory with a computer.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Oh, my God, that started very… Feeling old. So TSR80 and Oric, which was very European, Spectrum. So yes, very early-age stage of programming.
Josh Birk:
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
My first things doing with the computer was trying to development in BASIC at the time, and trying to figure out what you can do with a computer, which was super fun at this time. Small memory that you have to deal with, that you won’t guess, could not imagine it was so small and it can do things.
Josh Birk:
So I’m also a TSR80 child, I totally understand, and it took me the longest time to actually realize what a syntax error even meant. I got them all the time, but to me, it was like arcane computer code kind of thing, and then like, “Oh, syntax, like that. Okay, I got you now.” So early interests. Was it something you always wanted to do, was get into software engineering, or did you want to do something else as a kid?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
I’m not sure I had a very good idea about what I wanted to do.
Josh Birk:
Uh-huh.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
At this time, I had a lot of things. I was also a DJ in my early age, I was also… So I did a lot of things, to be really frank, so I used to say myself, “I’m a builder.” I’m someone that is very talkative, I’m a happy face all the time, so I fit in many areas. I can sell, I can explain, I can entertain, but most of the time, what I really love, is to build things.
Josh Birk:
Got it.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
And my thing is that computer things give me this part more than all the others.
Josh Birk:
Got it, nice. And when did you first get introduced to Salesforce?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Oh, that was 12 years ago, 13 years ago?
Josh Birk:
Okay.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
I was already a CIO in a pure player in France, and they were dedicated to online loan, that you can buy or estimate online. And they had a lot of different areas, of personal loan, and own construction loan, and insurance and so on. And they had no software to take care of their customer, it was all the time an internal CRM that was developed, so the very first touch with Salesforce was to try to find a solution that can fit all, and be flexible enough to have a 360 view of the customers that are taking personal loans, and moving forward with an insurance for his car, and blah, blah, blah.
Josh Birk:
Gotcha.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
So, that was the very first contact with Salesforce.
Josh Birk:
That’s interesting, because that’s a very straightforward CRM play kind of thing. When did you start kind of adopting Salesforce more as like an application platform?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
This is all me. I have been a developer for years, I was very engaged into the Microsoft ecosystem for years, and I, as a CIO, I found out touching Salesforce that this was just like larger than just a tiny tool. It was able to feed almost everybody in the company, so as I have used to do in other ecosystem, I have… The first thing was, “Okay, I need to go to Dreamforce. I need to see what the ecosystem is, I need to meet a lot of partners, I need to see what you can buy, I need to see what you can develop from others’ implementation. I need to see what the world is doing with Salesforce.”
Josh Birk:
Interesting.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
So the very first touch with Salesforce was that, because I had a feeling at this time that the mission that I had, which was to construct a CRM, was just the beginning in that company. And boom, it was, so I have been… I have been embracing the Ohana almost right away, and understand very quickly all the potential that Salesforce can have, not only for that mission and for that job, but maybe for being an expert in this area for years.
Josh Birk:
That’s kind of fascinating. So you took it, you were not like, “I’m going to be application centric,” from the beginning. You were like, “I want to know what the whole ecosystem looks like before I start navigating it.” When did you start moving from that to… Because you’re also a user group leader in France, right?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Absolutely. Yeah. And very naturally, it was the next step. I mean, if you try to learn that, the overall ecosystem, it’s a very good place to be in a user group and local discussion, very important. And you meet a lot of other people that have maybe met some problematic that you don’t know about, but you may know about too soon. So it’s good places, and as I said, I’m a passionate guy, I can’t stay in the corner and say nothing. So I’m very talkative, I always try to help.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
And guess what? When the leader stepped out of his position, I was just like the guy pushed on the scene, saying that, “Oh, this guy want to be a user group… ” “No, I don’t.” “Yes, you want.” “Okay. Okay, I will do it.” That was like that, really. Frankly, it was just like that.
Josh Birk:
Nice, nice. How many years ago was that?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Oh, what’s it been? Like more than 10.
Josh Birk:
Wow.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Something like… Yeah, more than 10.
Josh Birk:
Okay. Okay, wow. Okay. Well, we want to talk a lot about building applications, but give me the elevator pitch for your current role. Tell me what SharinPix is about.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
It’s super easy. What we do is images in Salesforce. The ideas that we have is, as soon as you use photos in Salesforce, we do have a solution and make that possible in the implementation. So what we know is images are very useful, even daily, from your personal life, you can take your phone and take pictures. This habit is now very oftenly seen in the business, as well.
Josh Birk:
Uh-huh.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
And there is a lot of attraction of that on the Salesforce area. It should be easy, but the fact is that there is so many devices, so many image formats, so many ways to deal with images, that it’s super complicated to implement most of the time.
Josh Birk:
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
And even more with the various technologies that you have in Salesforce, so we make it easy. We make it very easy and we free the power of the brain trying to figure out what you can do with an image, and making that possible with features around images in Salesforce, as well as a library of components. We have more than 20 components, so you can build your own UI, and all the automation that you want from that. And even the mobile app that is connected with the Salesforce mobile apps, so you can even work offline with the images connected to your Salesforce whenever you need it.
Josh Birk:
Gotcha. Very, very cool. Okay, so now, this is going to be one of those questions, so I’m going to ask, and then I’m basically just going to highlight… Probably just sort of let you talk. I’m not sure how long the answer will be, which is fine. But off the top of your head, what’s your best tips for somebody who is thinking about becoming an ISV and trying to put an app onto the AppExchange?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
A technology idea is good, but what you have is to find the problematic that you want to solve.
Josh Birk:
Okay.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
And on top of that, what the customer is ready to pay to get that solved. If you’re solving something that is never used, guess what? It’s very rare that they’re going to put a lot of money in that.
Josh Birk:
Right.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
If you’re solving that they see all the time and is taking them hours to work around, then maybe you have something that you can make them pay a lot for. So this is the value that you can bring, is solving a problem, or making something optimized that they don’t have any idea it could be optimized, to get at another level of using that. As a developer, most of the time you think technology. Instead of that, you should think about the business problem that you can solve.
Josh Birk:
Mm-hmm. And the scope of that problem being like… Is it somebody who’s doing their taxes once a year, or is it something that somebody’s going to be using day in and day out?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Sometimes, doing once a year, that could be of very high value.
Josh Birk:
Right.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
So it will depend on the value that you can take out of it. If you are solving the tax for someone that is having a multi-million tax income-
Josh Birk:
Right.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
… maybe, they want to put a lot of money if you can optimize that by 1%, even every two years. At the opposite, if it’s something that they are using daily but is just saving them the time to drink one more coffee, I’m not sure that the manager will be able to find a return on invest in that, and give you any money.
Josh Birk:
Right.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
So it’s both the value, the frequency. Most of the time, what do you unblock? Does that help people to do better, to do faster, to make more money with it?
Josh Birk:
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
That’s the key, that’s the key thing. And is it global, or is it just like a niche?
Josh Birk:
Right.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
And sometimes, a niche could be super interesting, but you have to be sure it’s going to be a niche that you can target and that exists maybe worldwide, and you can have a lot of users already.
Josh Birk:
Yeah, yeah. I mean, if I could pay somebody to organize Dreamforce for me once a year, I would probably pay a lot of money for it, but that would be a very complicated app. Do you have recommendations as to like finding those kind of solutions? From your own personal experience, where was your moment where you were like, “Pics are difficult in Salesforce, let’s make pictures easy,” and as you said, kind of like freeing the brain. Is there a process for investigating that kind of stuff?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
This is the story, you should have your ears wide open, and you should do things… Internally, I was the CIO of a company, and we built in something with images. At this time, it was very early age of Heroku. So we did that on Heroku, connected to Salesforce. And guess what? Because we were very early stage using Heroku, Salesforce was pushing me to be a speaker to talk about that. So I have just described what we did with images, and every time I did a talk, at the end, I had something like three to four customers coming to the scene and asking me… To the stage, and asking me, “Do you think that what you’ve built could solve also this kind of problem that they have with images?”
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
And I was just like, “Uh-oh, maybe there is a thing there.” And especially that what we find out at this time, when we built it, is that on the AppExchange, nobody was doing that. So doing something with images could be either a very bad idea because nobody want to do it, or a very good idea maybe early stage, because nobody yet have made their point to do it, so that’s the story about it.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
My feeling is that you most of the time find good ideas when you look at everything that has been built, and you see the problems, and you already find a way to solve it, and you can make it universal. Or, you feel like this big problem could have an easy way to be solved, and you want to explore or to do it. So look at what you have around you at one time, and keep your ears and your eyes wide open, because you will see those things.
Josh Birk:
I think that’s interesting, because we’re already kind of pulling a theme out here that you didn’t start with a problem or an application, you started with the community and you started with the ecosystem. And so, you’re doing nothing in an empty room, you’re listening to the community, you’re listening to the ecosystem. When we talked before, you described something of the Salesforce wave.
Josh Birk:
Tell me a little bit more about that concept and how listening to the community and building applications and then showing things to the community has that kind of resonance to it.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
I used to see Salesforce like a big wave, like there is a lot of marketing things, there is ideas in Answers that contains a lot of information about what is working, what is not working, what people are expecting. That is also a very big place where you can find a lot of it. There is also those events where people explain what they’ve done, there is a lot of things online, there is all the blogs, there is all the user groups, there is blah, blah, blah, or the Dreamin’ events.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
I’m holding one in Paris, by the way, that’s going to happen this year in December. Come to Paris to be part of it. And all that is a big wave. The only thing that you have to know is how to hold the surf and surf it. Even if you don’t know, are at the early age of what you try to do, how to stand on your surf, it’s not a big problem. You’re going to be hit by the power of the wave, and you can use it. And down the road, maybe you can learn how to stand on the surf and do better things, and bigger things, and be seen even wider.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
That’s the beauty when you want to do something in the marketing side and you don’t have a lot of money, Salesforce is already doing a lot of things in marketing area that you can take advantage of.
Josh Birk:
Uh-huh.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
The AppExchange is a place where you can hit lot of different countries, lot of different partners. You just have to understand how it is used by the people that are using that. So once again, this is an example about how you can use the Salesforce wave to hit your target, and so on. Being part of the community, and this is where we’ve checked that SharinPix could fit and answer a lot of questions, is go to Answers, and try to figure out if there a lot of people that are asking things about images.
Josh Birk:
Right.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
We did that, and we see many use cases explained by customers that were facing problem. Then, “Oh, if we solve all those,” there were just like hundreds. So we say, “Okay, so we already have people that have that problem, we know how to target them, we’ve got their name. We can send them a message saying that, ‘Oh, you know what? If you still have this problem, we have a solution to it.'” That’s an easy one.
Josh Birk:
Nice, nice. Now, one of the things that we’ve got in the marketing toolkit is Demo Jams. What has been your participation like with those?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
I am lucky enough to have four Demo Jam trophy in from of me currently.
Josh Birk:
Nice.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
So I can say I’m a good Demo Jammer. I love that, it’s so fun. I’ll be Demo Jamming at TrailblazerDX, so crossing fingers it’s going to be another trophy there, but-
Josh Birk:
Nice.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
… there is a lot of competition, so you never know.
Josh Birk:
Right.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
But at least it’s super fun, it’s a very good opportunity to showcase your product in three minutes of time. That make you think about, as well, about what is the wow effect that you want people to see. And how to make that fun, because people don’t want a demo to be something that… They want to enjoy. So you need to make that fun, so it’s a very good thing to practice. Even if you’re not going to be part of Demo Jam, that’s a very, very good exercise. To say, “Okay, I’ve got three minutes. I have a lot of things to show. What I want to show… ” Maybe you have to cut that by two to make it fit in three minutes, because most of the time, you think that you’re going to make things fit everywhere.
Josh Birk:
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
But the reality is not, doesn’t work that way. And then, you have to focus on what is the best value, best wow effect, and that’s also depending on the audience. Maybe a Demo Jam at Dreamforce would not be the same one in a Dreamin’ event, that it may be not same one that in TrailblazerDX.
Josh Birk:
Oh.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
So you have also to focus on what the audience want to see, so they got a better understanding about what you do, and maybe they’re going to get back to your booth or go to your AppExchange page with this vision that they may not have before.
Josh Birk:
That’s actually, I hadn’t thought about that before. How would you compare a community audience versus like a Dreamin’ audience, versus a TrailblazerDX audience?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Oh, it’s super different. I mean-
Josh Birk:
Really?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
And it depends on the Dreamin’ events, because some Dreamin’ events are very developer oriented-
Josh Birk:
Right, right.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
… than some others. And at the opposite, TrailblazerDX is much more like admin and developers, or builders.
Josh Birk:
Uh-huh.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
I used to say builders, so app builders want to know what they can do with it. At the opposite, Dreamforce, you got a lot of people that are builders, but you also got a lot of people that are business users, that want to understand the use case behind. So you don’t have to talk about components and things like that, you have to talk about the solution value that you have, and how easy it is to be used within Salesforce.
Josh Birk:
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
So it really depends on the kind of audience that you have, even in the community in Dreamin’ events, you can have developers only, a mix between developers and admin, only a power user or key person, there is one Dreamin’ that is focused on partners, so it’s only people that are implementing Salesforce not on the consumer side, but from a partner. And that’s also another audience, so all this kind of audience needs you to show a facet of your work that is different.
Josh Birk:
Got it.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
When you show that to an admin, they have to understand that it’s easy, they don’t need to develop. When you show that to the developer, you have to show them that, oh, they don’t have to develop, and if they want to develop, everything is up and they can do their magic with their code using your product.
Josh Birk:
Got it.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
And blah, blah, blah.
Josh Birk:
Got it. Now, Demo Jams, and I’ll level set here a second, because we do have an episode with Amanda Nelson, if everybody wants to check that out to go into depth with the Demo Jams. But they’re three-minute-long presentations focused on your product, and everybody gets to kind of come up and do a bunch of pizzazz. You’ve got that many trophies, I got to just ask, what’s the craziest thing you’ve done on stage?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
The craziest thing I’ve done on stage. Oh, I had this little drone that I was just giving away at the end of the… at my booth.
Josh Birk:
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
It was just like a flashing ball that just like copter things on top of it. So I just save five seconds at the end, so I can drop it and say, “Oh, this drone, you can have it at the booth,” at the end. Everybody was going crazy about it. It was so fun.
Josh Birk:
Nothing wrong with bribing people with a drone, I love it. I love it. Tell me a little bit more about being on the AppExchange. And do you have tips? Let’s say I’ve kind of done some of the things we’re talking about, like I found a problem on Answers. I think I know how, and I have a solution. I’ve got a solution, I’m building it. Do you have tips for actually being on AppExchange itself? How will people find my application, and how will people actually be able to be like, “I’m going to download the demo,” and then maybe actually give you money?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
You have to get on the shoes of the people that are seeking for a solution for the problem on the AppExchange, so the first thing that you have to understand is, do you think that they’re going to go by category, or do you think that they’re going to hit some keywords and try to find you that way? Could be both. So if you can, construct your page on that. The more experience you can give them, the best it is. So it could be just with a few text areas that you have, but the slides and showing them screenshots is super important, giving them the ability to have a test drive that you can help them to go through, it’s super important as well.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Asking for a demo or viewing a video demo is super important, pushing them to install the app for a free trial, and advertising that, because I know that there is people who have a free trial, you don’t discover that until you already install that, or read a tiny line that is on the very below down the listing, which is not a good idea. And last but not least, the AppExchange chat is super important. If people want to talk to you about your app, and you have ability to be there and talk and answer them, then it could be a very fast sell.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
So the AppExchange is full of gems, you just have to understand all the works, and most of the time, all those gems should work for you. If they are not, it’s maybe that you have not understood what you really can do for that. But there is a lot of blog posts that answers that, and as well, a lot of resources within the partners at salesforce.com, the partners’ community, that have a lot of resources about how to build a good AppExchange app listing.
Josh Birk:
Got it. Nice, nice. Now, you already gave it a shout-out, which I love, but tell me a little bit more about French Touch Dreamin. When did that start? And were you one of the founders, or have you just gotten involved over time?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
We were three MDPs, or maybe four, or… I don’t remember. So we were four MDPs at this time, at London’s Calling, which is the Dreamin’ event in London.
Josh Birk:
Oh.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
And we decided to, “Why don’t we do the same in Paris?” That was the story behind that. And so, that’s going to be the first time this year.
Josh Birk:
Okay.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
We’re happy we are back after two years without it, because of this little… What do they call this? COVID pandemic, something? Yeah? Did you hear about that, maybe?
Josh Birk:
This thing that’s been going around a little bit, I hear it. Yeah, yeah.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Yeah? Yeah, you hear that?
Josh Birk:
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Okay, so that’s why. So we’re going to be back on the 1st of December of this year.
Josh Birk:
Okay.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
I’m happy to welcome back all the community in Paris. The good thing is that we try to make it English. We’ve decided to do that just because we can have a lot of speakers coming from everywhere in the world. And my feeling is that it’s super important to give the opportunity to local people that don’t have the ability to travel a lot to touch base with those experts that can make… can learn about their expertise in the ecosystem. And Paris is very attractive, even for US people or UK people, Spain people, wherever you are in the world, visiting Paris is always a good idea.
Josh Birk:
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
So good food, good wine, good everything.
Josh Birk:
Nice. Awesome. I love-
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
That’s the idea behind French Touch Dreamin. French Touch Dreamin, a Dreamin’ in a very French way.
Josh Birk:
Nice. How did you react, for conference-wise, to the pandemic? Did you go virtual, or did you just basically be like, “We’re going to wait and see what happens here”?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
There were so many virtual Dreamin’ events that we’ve discussed about that, but didn’t find a place where we could be relevant.
Josh Birk:
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Because the main difference between London’s Calling and French Touch Dreamin, as an example, is the location.
Josh Birk:
Gotcha.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Mostly, the format and so on is very alike, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t exist side by side. But when you go virtual, all the French can go to the London’s Calling virtual event, and all the English people can go also to the French event. So what’s going to make you attract them?
Josh Birk:
Right.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
And what does it mean for your partners? Because you get the money from the partners, to organize that kind of thing. So if there were not that many virtual events, maybe we would have tried that. But because of the offer, and also we’ve heard a lot of people saying that, “Oh, we are sick about everything that’s going virtual all the time.” So we were like, “Okay, we’re going to wait.” And you are missing a good part of French Dreamin, which is the food and the wine, and the champagne.
Josh Birk:
Gotcha.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Virtual champagne is not the same.
Josh Birk:
It’s not the same.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
That’s really-
Josh Birk:
It’s just not the same.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
No.
Josh Birk:
Yeah.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
No.
Josh Birk:
Now, talking about-
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
No, the sound of the bubble is not enough.
Josh Birk:
Yeah, I’ve tried those apps, they’re very unappealing, to be quite honest. Now, talking about in person, you are, next week, as we’re recording this, which will probably be in the past by the time this comes out, but next week is TrailblazerDX and you’re coming to San Francisco, right?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Absolutely. Yeah, we’re going to be a sponsor at TrailblazerDX and I’ll be a speaker as well, and then we’ll do a Demo Jam.
Josh Birk:
And try to take home your fifth trophy.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
Yeah. We will see, we will see. There is a lot of good competitors, so it’s going to be a fun fight. And it’s always very fun, but as I used to say, “The winner of the Demo Jam is the guy that has shown the best of his app. It’s not the one with the trophy.”
Josh Birk:
Mm-hmm.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
It could be the same, it could be everybody.
Josh Birk:
Right.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
The goal of that is to make people have a big smile and understand what you got on the product, and they come to your booth there.
Josh Birk:
And that’s our show. Now, if you want to learn more about Jean-Michel, head on over to the show notes where you can see the links to his social media. Now, before we go, I did ask after Jean-Michel’s favorite non-technical hobby, and well, it’s something that helps him out on stage.
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
So not a lot of people know that, but if you come to the booth and you ask me if I have a card deck, I can do magic tricks. And I have done-
Josh Birk:
Really?
Jean-Michel Mougeolle:
… that a lot. Yeah, I do close-up, it’s all me. So now you understand why I’m very entertaining on stage for a Demo Jam, because I love this kind of thing. And I try to do, to have the wow effect, the same that if you just pick a card and you find it back. It’s quite the same thing that I’ve tried to do with the SharinPix features. And that is always the same thing, it’s telling your story, making people follow the things, see the magic, be amazed, and if they’re happy, they’re going to buy it.
Josh Birk:
I want to thank Jean-Michel for the great conversation, and as always, I want to thank you for listening. Now, if you want to learn more about this show, head on over to development at salesforce.com/podcasts, where you can hear all the episodes, see the show notes, and links to your favorite podcast service. Thanks again, everybody, and I’ll talk to you next week.